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Cannot decide on a grad school ? Grad Life

By oblomov2
from the Math department
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 07:15:05 PM PDT
I am an international student and on the edge of a decision of my life. I have two alternatives offers…

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The first alternative offered me TA position, and has a math ranking between 25 and 30. Second is Courant NYU, admitted only to M.Sc. program. If I pass the written comprehensive with A then they will admit me to PhD. No financial aid now, it will be considered after being a PhD candidate. And I am able to find loans to fund 2 years of expenses.(from my government)

Money is important of course but I can handle it. I have following main concerns in the order of priority.

1- I want to develop strong math knowledge and research ability.
2- I will spend about 5 years and, I have some worries about city life. (Crowd, traffic, prices etc.)  1st alternative is located in a city about 400k, and seems lovely.
3- Time to receive the PhD.

All I know about these schools are some rankings of NRC and information on their webpages. I am confused and I cannot guess how much these schools differ in helping me to maximize myself.

I am aware that it is risky to choose second alternative. But I will consider this risk independent from the concerns above so you may assume that I will be successful and receive a PhD degree from both alternatives.

I cannot decide, if I look at the rankings Courant seems to train better? But NYC frightens.
Any idea will be appreciated highly.
Thanks.

Note: I haven't decided a research subject yet. But you may assume I am equidistant to both schools in terms of research subject. (I only know my research subject will not contain the word "differential")

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Cannot decide on a grad school ? | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 hidden)
[new] Re: Cannot decide on a grad school ? (none / 0) (#1)
by fedka on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 08:05:28 PM PDT

Hello Oblomov,

A case could probably be made for either. Courant has an outstanding department; in particular it's one of the very best places in the world for applied math and analysis/pde's. As you're likely aware, the 2005 and 2007 Abel Prize winners are both on the faculty there. On the other hand, though there are faculty in other areas, the emphasis does swing toward analysis there, so if you want to avoid the word "differential" you might feel like a bit of an outsider. The financial aspect is a valid concern, and since New York is the most expensive city in the United States you'll probably have to borrow a lot in your first two years (I presume, though, that if you pass the exam and get financial aid it will be large enough to compensate for the cost of living for the remaining years). While big cities can be intimidating, quite a lot of people have fallen in love with New York after moving there, and Courant is located in a very desirable part of town. You certainly will have no need for a car, so traffic won't be an issue.

The departments in the 25-30 range are all certainly respectable, and I think each has some individual faculty members who are quite distinguished, but these departments are not of the same caliber as NYU's. They'll surely have the right infrastructure in terms of coursework that you need and so on.

If you don't already have this information, it might be a good idea to ask the graduate director at Courant what the success rate is for students who are admitted under a plan like yours, and how long on average they take to get their Ph. D. You should probably get similar information from the other school too. I'm not sure which will take longer--on the one hand, time-to-degree tends to increase as you go down the rankings (and it's also usually higher for public schools, but I don't know if your other school is public), but on the other your situation might make your time at Courant longer than it would be if you were admitted directly to the Ph. D. program.

At NYU, you'll be surrounded by a lot of very bright peers (and even brighter senior people), which has the advantage of possibly pushing you harder and creating a fertile environment for new ideas, but which also might feel intimidating and cause you to feel lost in the crowd. The other place might feel a little more comfortable. Part of your decision may come down to whether you think you need to feel challenged from the outside, as you would be at NYU, or if you're self-motivated enough that you don't need that outside pressure.

So those are some thoughts. I hope they've made you feel less confused rather than more so. Good luck in your decision.

F



[new] hard choice (none / 0) (#2)
by anton on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 10:19:48 PM PDT

There could be a hotshot or hotshots on the faculty of the 25-30 school with networking which could land you a tenure track research professorship doing the specialty you want. I think it comes down to being able to do a topic that relates to your interests. I am a bit leery of the NYU offer because if you check out http://thegradcafe.com/survey/index.php, you may notice that certain grad programs seem to offer a try-before-they-buy you offer. Seems like Univ. Chicago, UCLA, and NYU offer some PhD applicants a similar form of admission. The cynical side of me says they want to fleece a student and then when they apply for a PhD program send them a letter saying "sorry the competition was especially keen this year...lots of qualified applicants declined" etc. etc., and the other side says that they're giving a fair shot to get in with funding after they're done getting a lot of money from a student. I think perhaps you should look at some of the professors you're interested in studying with, email them and ask them about doing a dissertation together, and google some of their students to see where they've ended up as professors. Good luck with your decision.



[new] check it out (none / 0) (#3)
by anton on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 10:38:51 PM PDT

http://thegradcafe.com/survey/index.php?DT=A&PL=math Just look at how many people NYU has admitted without funding. Check that against how many are going to go, with their own funding, and then apply for the spots available with funding. I don't know, sounds kind of scary, and expensive. Your call though. NYU is a top program, but there are many outstanding programs in the top 20 field, and it seems that the top 30 programs can land someone a research professorship if the student yields strong research. I've read about a Berkeley PhD not finding a decent job, and if you check MIT's faculty page you can see a Univ. of New Mexico PhD on a tenure track there, and UT Austin has a Univ. of Nebraska Lincoln and a Univ. of Kansas PhD on board. Although it does seem the stronger programs do produce more research professors on average.



[new] I was thinking... (none / 0) (#4)
by anton on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:08:01 AM PDT

that although you may ultimately not get funded with NYU after admission to their PhD program (or you may), but if you do not you can ALWAYS send out applications to many other well-ranked programs at that time as well. There are plenty of PhD's who got their masters at other programs. Who's to say you won't end up at an even more optimal/preferable place for your PhD? Good luck with your decision.



[new] Warning about Courant (none / 0) (#5)
by emengee on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 09:21:10 AM PDT

I must strongly advise against going to Courant. I have a lot of knowledge about the way the program works, having been an undergraduate math major at NYU who has taken graduate courses and interacted with many graduate students, and also having a friend who has worked in graduate admissions at Courant. I know both from experience and from my friend that Courant will only outright reject an applicant if they have a severely weak background in mathematics and haven't even satisfied the requirements for an undergraduate education in math. Otherwise, if they are not accepted into the PhD program with funding, they will almost assuredly be given an offer of acceptance into the masters program without funding (and the not-even-promise that they could receive funding upon passing the comprehensive exams). Basically, they're willing to take nearly anyone's money. Having taken graduate courses at Courant, I must say that the PhD students I've interacted with are absolutely brilliant. They're top-notch students and very hard workers. I actually have very intelligent friends who applied for the graduate program at Courant who were denied admission (although they were high enough on Courant's list to be accepted into the PhD program but waitlisted for funding - some of them were awarded funding in the end, others weren't, but none actually went). That said, even the extremely brilliant people I met who Courant considered intelligent enough to admit into the PhD program with full funding had a very difficult time with the program, and many of them failed their quals the first time around. I certainly don't know anything about how intelligent/billiant/hard-working/etc. you are, but if the students who were accepted into the PhD program with funding are having difficulties passing their exams, I would find it hard to believe that someone admitted to the masters program without funding would have anything less than one large uphill struggle in the program. Additionally, the department is very two faced when it comes to the graduate students. Their graduate secretary, in particular, has a widely-known reputation for being biased. The department is quick to cater to the concerns of funded students, but when a masters student needs to discuss something, the administration seems to not have the time of day to give them. This is also the graduate program's view on undergraduates. I was often times turned away from Tamar with legitimate questions because she seemed to be too busy to deal with me, but on the occasion she thought I was a PhD student (because I was taking a course with only other PhD students), she welcomed me into her office to cut in front of another student who had been waiting for longer than I had. I don't know what the other school you got into was, but if I were in your position, I would certainly choose the other school. Since you were admitted with funding, they think highly enough of you to make such a large financial investment in you that you'll most assuredly be treated with more respect. Additionally, if the department has at least a few people you'd be interested in working with, I think you'll find yourself much happier there. This is just my opinion, though. Others can feel free to share their different experiences with Courant.



[new] Thank you all (none / 0) (#6)
by oblomov2 on Tue Apr 03, 2007 at 01:32:57 PM PDT

Thank you very much all of you, for comments.
I have a several days to meditate.

When one thinks much about a subject (s)he stucks and needs a fresh eye. Each opinion you shared, gives me better and different views.  




[new] Useful tip for Business Statistics (none / 0) (#7)
by olugbenga ajayi on Tue Dec 11, 2007 at 01:52:04 PM PDT

I found this website that's been really productive for me, and feel the need to introduce this site to anyone that is interested in Warehouse Designing, and E-Commerce.

http://www.thecyberprofessor.com




Cannot decide on a grad school ? | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 hidden)
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