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age discrimination for professorships Grad Life

By Anonymous Hero
Posted Mon Aug 21, 2006 at 03:05:06 PM PDT
There's been a lot of talk lately about age vs. grad school, but...

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we should also look at the job prospects for someone popping out of a grad program.

"Last year's report raised the point that age discrimination appears to be a problem at the interview stage, and this year's figures support such a conclusion. Candidates under the age of thirty averaged 3.3 interviews, and those aged 30-39 averaged 3.0. By contrast, candidates aged 40-49 averaged 1.1, and those aged 50-59 averaged only 0.1. While some of this sharp drop can be explained by the fact that candidates tend to apply for fewer jobs as they advance in age (Table 7A), that is not the sole cause. Those candidates over the age of 40 who applied for more than 20 positions averaged far fewer interviews than their younger counterparts, as did those who applied for more than 10 positions (Table 7B). It appears that institutions are hesitant to interview candidates over the age of 40."

http://www.apaclassics.org/profmat/cswmg_placement2003.html

Anyway, this is sobering stuff. Any thoughts?
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age discrimination for professorships | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 hidden)
[new] Interesting... (none / 0) (#1)
by Vanes63 on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 06:09:47 AM PDT

My department seems to have more of an older crowd than I thought they would, although I am not particularly disappointed because I believe that I can learn from their experiences.

Statistics tells us that correlation does not imply causation, do you believe there are more underlying causes that make this relationship so? What do you think departments are looking for in new hires?

Answering those questions could give us a better idea of what applicants can do to get interviews more easily regardless of age and maybe even what we can do before we even get to the job application process - what kinds of things we can work towards doing in order to impress future employers. I think the job application process begins much earlier than graduation, what do you think? (open question to all, not just poster)



[new] agree (none / 0) (#2)
by vizioneer on Tue Aug 22, 2006 at 07:02:39 AM PDT

I agree that the article doesn't look at the fact that there probably are other reasons other than just being in an age bracket that on average gets less interviews. Although sometimes outright age discrimination exists, I think if someone were to change career into the math professoriate at a later age then there is no reason success won't be there- one may just need to look into more places. Indeed, building on one's previous background into math may very well offer a stronger candidate for many jobs.



[new] concerned (none / 0) (#3)
by Cotati on Thu Sep 07, 2006 at 12:16:02 PM PDT

Since I will be around 50 yrs old by the time I finish my degree, I am certainly concerned about age discrimination. I expect it to exist, and went into the PhD program fully aware of this. But the opinions that I had received from faculty members was that, while age discrimination exists in US academia, it is not as bad as some might think, not as bad as in US industry (something I know about), and certainly not as bad as academia in Europe. They mostly said that there should not be a problem finding some kind of position in academia. Now I don't know whether I'll ever see tenure, but I'm not worrying about that.

Now that said, I can't contradict statistics if I had not gathered them. I see from the website that you linked to that the article being quoted from is statistics from the American Philological Association. While I would not be surprised to learn that there is a correlation between hiring patterns of professors in mathematics versus other humanities (classical studies, in this case), they could well be very different. After all, funding for PhD students in mathematics is, I am told, very different from that in other fields. So I would take the stats with a grain of salt.

I would also not be surprised if there were some difference depending on what type of institution you are applying to. A top flight research school may be looking for younger candidates, for similar reasons that the Fields Medal is only given to young mathematicians. But there are many more positions at schools that are less research oriented, and at non-PhD-granting institutions. They may be less concerned about age. I don't really know.

In any case, even if the stats do show age discrimination, I have learned in life not to let such obstacles deter me too much. It does not pay me to lose sleep over these sorts of things while I need to concentrate on writing a dissertation. I'll worry about landing a position when I finish my degree. And a good set of letters of reference from respected researchers will probably more than offset the age drawback when it comes to the job search overall.

Just my opinion.



[new] Maybe the results of that study (none / 0) (#4)
by Eurapart on Wed Nov 08, 2006 at 01:51:15 AM PDT

Maybe the results of that study was an isolated case. In fact, where I come from, they discriminate the young over the old. But not in a blatant way. The classes are a good mix of ages though. But tending to lean towards the more aged crowd. Still, I don't think it's such a big issue, since people nowadays cry discrimination over the smallest thing.



age discrimination for professorships | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 hidden)
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