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Use of Computers

Teaching

By Anonymous Hero
Posted Mon Dec 19, 2005 at 01:42:13 PM PDT

I'm becoming increasingly concerned about using these online courses with WebCT and was wondering how other people feel. Where I am at, almost all the lower level classes, Calc I, Calc II, and engeneering math are online (WebCT). Here, the exams are 8 multiple choice and usually 4 written questions. The students never see thier online exams, never know what they got wrong, and can never ask us (TA's) for the right answer. On top of this, the lower level classes get thier homework graded by undergrads, the scores recorded, and then thrown out. So, the students never get thier homework back, never know exactly what they got wrong, etc... Personally, I really don't think this is appropriate, but this may be how it is everywhere now. It wasn't like this where I got my undergrad. Is this a common practice? Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

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Use of Computers | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 hidden)

[new] Online Course or just using WebCT (none / 0) (#1)
by Vanes63 on Tue Dec 27, 2005 at 09:53:52 AM PDT

At my university we use WebCT, at a neighboring university I took a Linear Algebra course at they used Blackboard, but I think there is a substantial difference between a course being taught 100% online with WebCT or Blackboard and the instructor using WebCT or Blackboard as a tool to aid the course with.

Most students at my university think WebCT is pretty useful as it helps students discuss assignments and problems they are having with the course, technical and non-technical, and depending on how the instructor sets up the course material online you can print lecture notes and study-guides for tests. But there are some courses, such as Logic, that should not be solely based online and the courses at your institution crossed with the testing style might also be not fit for online instruction.

I think it depends on the extent to which instructors use the aides they have available to them whether or not it makes it worth it for students. Realize though, that I attend a small university that does not have TAs and the instructors are very hands-on with the students. My opinion is therefore skewed in terms of the instructors use and the versatility of WebCT. Even when I took that Linear Algebra class, the instructor was very hands-on and used Blackboard for mostly grading and having lecture notes available. My WebCT experience has been very positive in all disciplines that used it, even history, philosophy and religious studies courses.

One thing I think optimizes the WebCT experience is the fact that students do get to see the past exams, after they have taken them, and can share and compare answers. I had one course that would have been made so much better by the students just knowing where they stood in terms of course progress. Students need to know if they are doing good or bad to know how effective their study methods are - this is a necessary component in any course with or without WebCT/Blackboard.

There are some courses that I thought the availability of the lecture notes on something like WebCT would have enhanced course content, it would have made students be able to pay more attention. Instead of writing down everything the instructor says, they can actually listen to the instructors' lecture. They can also better prepare for lectures beforehand (the reality of that happening is not very probable, but there are students who do print out notes early and fill in the gaps during lecture). There are a lot of good things about having that material prepared and ready beforehand. But, if there is too much emphasis of the "online" portion of the course and not enough on student learning, well that changes things a little bit.

I have had many math courses where all exam questions are "free-response" and even some where all are written/essay questions (think definitions and explanations), but the most useful of all of those exams were ones were I got feedback. Feedback is useful in any course to know whether or not the study methods you are using to grasp the course material are sufficient enough or whether or not you are understanding the material correctly.

I wonder if the students in those courses can "never ask us (TA's) for the right answer" because it is not possible or because they do not want to or find a need to. Have you heard many complaints from the students enrolled in the courses? What kind of evaluations are the students giving these courses? What is the particular emphasis of the course? Is it a "weeder" type course? My school does not have any of these because we are mainly a teaching institution, but your institution might want to insure the best and brightest move on to the upper-level courses. They may want students to realize that high-school study methods will not work anymore because they are in college and college is different. Do you know if the students are putting what the instructor, or any instructor, would consider "sufficient" time and energy into the course material? Is everyone flunking at the end of the course or are they all getting "A's" or are the grades a perfect bell-curve? While grades are not the best indicator of content-knowledge, they do matter to some students and some institutions and that might also play a role in how the course is governed.

I hope this helps, but I'm also curious to know what others think so I hope other young mathematicians post comments soon ;).

[new] Homework is "thrown out"??? (none / 0) (#2)
by keludwick on Wed Jan 04, 2006 at 03:50:51 PM PDT

Why in the world would homework be "thrown out" after it's graded? To hide from students (and/or the more general public) that the grading is done by untrained undergraduates? To withhold feedback from students, thus academically crippling them and making them less likely to pass through "filter" courses? This sounds shady, to say the least, if your description is accurate. Either use collected homework for feedback, or don't collect it at all.

Providing zero feedback and assigning grades which -- from the student's point of view, certainly -- must seem entirely arbitrary. Wow. It sounds to me like your institution is doing its very best to alienate most of the students in its mathematics classes. Trust me, that is not done everywhere; I would hope that what you're describe is very rare.

As a side note - why not assign homework using the WebCT quiz feature? WebCT is a terrific tool for providing immediate feedback to students. And with homework, security is much less of an issue than it is on tests, so you can provide all the feedback you like. This would be far more beneficial to students than the (for all practical purposes) arbitrary grades they're given now.

[new] Both Sides (none / 0) (#3)
by chelst on Wed Jan 18, 2006 at 11:40:33 AM PDT

Hi.

I currently use eCollege when I teach my courses. To date, I have used eCollege to augment all of my courses. In addition, I have used eCollege to teach courses entirely online in discrete mathematics, college algebra and statistics. I am also familiar with Blackboard and have used it to augment my courses as well.

Without a doubt, an online gradebook, available course documents, easy e-mail facilities, online assignment submission, and online discussion capabilities enhance a course. They are, however time consuming to construct, maintain and troubleshoot.

What is more problematic are the assessment features: online quizzes and exams. The problems stem from two areas. Without requiring proctored exams, there is virtually no way to prevent one student from taking an exam for another. There is virtually no way to prevent a student from using any technological device while taking the exam.

In addition, as online exams are more time-consuming to develop, I find myself unable to devote the time to modify my online materials, specifically exams and quizzes each semester. In a regular course, each quiz and exam has 3 different versions and I change these exams each semester. I hate to say that I cannot currently do this for my online courses.

Finally, one may debate about whether the online teaching medium is optimally suited to teaching a math course. However, the technology is available and I don't see it going away any time soon. It is similar to arguing against the use of calculators in the classroom. It does not appear like a debate that the anti-calculator and similarly the anti-online camp can win in the long run.

Those are my two cents. Remember as I continue to teach online my opinion will constantly evolve. Also, the online experience can be LARGELY affected by the software policies decided by your university's system administrators.

Dov

[new] Online Math Teaching (none / 0) (#4)
by kuttushlambu on Sat Oct 21, 2006 at 08:16:30 AM PDT

I am completely against online teaching. Using online/technology to explain a thing better (which perhaps could not be done in the class due to time constraints) is fine, a great idea. But how can a subject like Math - where you need to teach students how to use logic, imagination, intuition - be taught online? Then what is the difference between asking them to read the book by themselves and teaching?

[new] Reply to Original Post (none / 0) (#5)
by Jonny77889 on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 08:52:08 PM PDT

That sounds utterly disgusting! Grading and never returning papers is stupid! Sounds like teachers can give F's to students they don't like and get away with it. And it doesn't help the student any if he has no idea why he got the grade he got.

The tests seem unfair, too, since multiple-choice math exams are unfair and not a good idea unless there are too many students and too few people to grade the exams. On top of that, if it's online, students can easily cheat on such a test and get away with it.

I don't like online teaching for math classes; it's equivalent to telling the student to read the book on his own and stop by your office if he needs help on something. That surely sets up many students for failure. Online tools can be a good supplement for a class (and I think they can be used very effectively), but the internet should never, ever substitute for in-class teaching and learning.

As for online assignments and homework, here's what I'll say: UK here uses a lot of online homework for lower-level math classes, and I've grown to detest such homework. It's easy for students to cheat on it; they get no experience in writing their answers clearly and correctly and explaining their reasoning (so it enforces the students' false belief that only the final answer matters and not the reasoning and work leading to it); homework cannot be graded for students' methods and reasoning to obtain their answers (especially worse in the cases where there are multiple-choice questions, which may or may not have multiple answers, and the student can simply guess the answer enough times till he finally gets it right because the system lets him try as many times as he wants before the due date); and the darn thing messes up a lot, creating a lot of headaches for teachers when students complain they can't log on or that the system isn't working properly! Such problems never happen with good ol' paper homework!

Other Possibilities by machi4velli, 05/19/2008 03:08:30 PDT (none / 0)

[new] Using computers (none / 0) (#6)
by Liana on Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 07:02:11 AM PDT

I don't think it's the best way to learn since I think that it's possible to learn a lot from your mistakes. If you see what you have done wrong you can learn it til next time. Computers are great, but nt always the best way.
Liana, IT Freelancer currently working on the hoodia weight loss supplement project.

[new] Depends on the Professor (none / 0) (#7)
by machi4velli on Mon May 19, 2008 at 02:31:59 AM PDT

I know first hand that a course of that sort is very bad for students. I am currently an undergrad (almost done with BS) and have taken classes in WebCT and a couple in Blackboard. The differences between the systems do not mean much from the student's perspective. Rather, the value of these courses is largely determined by the professor. I have had some professors who never return homework or allow students to review the exams or, even worse, do not post grades promptly (for things that are not graded by the system). Others who do not reply to e-mails and generally do a bad job with online courses. I have also had some very good professors who return all homeworks, allow reviews of the exams (after the due date so everyone took it), and respond to e-mails promptly. Some of my professors have homeworks to be done by hand, which I e-fax to myself and send in and the professor prints, grades, scans, and returns via e-mail. Some others make use of local proctors so students can exams by hand if the practice is more suitable for the material. Alternatively, some professors post the solutions to homework/exams in the course after they have been graded, which works just as well for students (since we still have our own copy). My experience at three institutions (had to get my electives where I could), it really just depends on the professor. At least from high school experience, I would imagine in this sense, it is similar to traditional courses.

Use of Computers | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 hidden)

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