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Ph.D. attrition rates | 5 comments (5 topical, 0 hidden)
[new] Attitude of school counts (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Anonymous Hero on Wed Jan 14, 2004 at 10:23:43 AM PDT

I started grad school at one university which was Group II (not one of the top 40 schools, but probably top 100) where the attitude among the faculty that the grad students the school got had about only a 50% chance of surviving the first year to return for the second and about a 1/5 chance of being invited back for a third year (those invited were those expected to complete a PhD). I got "conditionally" invited back, with the condition being repeating some courses. I left for a job with the government. After a year off, I applied and got into a Group I school, a top 30 school. There the attitude was that they only admit those who they expect to complete a PhD, that all those they accept should be able to complete a PhD. I had the highest or second highest grade in all the classes I took except one (my one A- in my four years there) and finished by degree.



[new] More specifics needed in my opinion ... (3.00 / 1) (#1)
by overconvergent on Tue Jan 13, 2004 at 02:51:28 PM PDT

The statistics do look very worrying, but one thing that should be taken into account is that this is an average over all fields, from high energy physics, with a very low attrition rate (~20%), to history, with a high attrition rate (~70%).

I don't know many good references for this, although I found a report from Dalhousie University about Canadian universities, which breaks down the Completion Rates as follows:

Life Sciences: 70.4%
Physical Sciences: 66.7%
Social Sciences: 48.5%
Arts & Humanities: 44.7%

I suspect that Math(s) is part of Physical Sciences for the purpose of this report (and I am surprised that the Arts completion rate is so high).



[new] Grad School's a bitch (none / 0) (#3)
by JHamblin on Thu Jan 15, 2004 at 12:38:34 PM PDT

I often tell people stories about some of the downsides of grad school. There certainly are plenty, and my class in particular at the University of Wisconsin had a huge amount of attrition. Unfortunately, grad school just isn't for everyone, and many many people don't find that out until it's too late. Plus I don't see any real way for the schools to pre-screen grad students to see if they'll succeed or not. As the graphic at the bottom of the story shows, GRE general scores are useless, and I assume subject exam scores are equally worthless. --JH


[new] Sometimes its perseverance more than raw tallent (none / 0) (#4)
by jvano on Thu Jan 15, 2004 at 01:24:59 PM PDT

I had a huge attrition rate among my 1st year class in grad school as well. However I don't think that the story is as black and white as the article in the chronicle of higher education paints it. Saying that "half of those bright students -- many of whom have never tasted failure -- will drop out before they can claim their prize" makes it seem like all the students who chose to leave the program are forced out because they don't have what it takes. Granted this does happen to some, but I think that there are other factors that play a key roll (at least for those students who were in my program I think this is the case).

Some of the students in my program decided to work toward their PhD at another school. Given that grad school involves finding an advisor with whom you can work its not too suprising that the student/school match is a bit more sensitive than choosing an undergraduate institution.

Others students came to a decision that they only wanted a get a masters degree. One such student was one of my office mates and I would say that he definatly had "what it takes" to earn his PhD if he had truely wanted this. However, after a few years in the program he decided that a life in acadamia wasn't what he wanted, so he chose to just get a masters degree and enter "the real world" (scarry isn't it?).

There are two examples of sort of voluntary "no hard feelings" type exits. Of course in my class there was also at least one student who was "forced out" after not passing preliminary exams. However, as it turns out, this student did leave with a masters and then went to another school to get their PhD.

I think that in the end, a large part of actually earning your PhD and making it through has to do with perseverance more than just "smarts". I've heard stories of people who were actually "too smart" and wound up never getting their degree because they were not able to settle down and work on a single field.

In the end (at least for mathematics) I think a large part of getting your PhD is a matter of how many nights you are willing to go without sleep! ;)



Ph.D. attrition rates | 5 comments (5 topical, 0 hidden)

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